Whether the animal kingdom permits homosexual acts or not probably isn’t a good point of reference to use since we dont look to species to dictate the norms of human behavior, for we would all lack self control and act on grave impulses instead of the ability to reason and make sound decisions. Ironically it is our inabilty to exercise self restraint which creates an ovewhelming high resemblance to animals, and greatly contributes to the various plights in our society.

In addition, our nation celebrates freedom of speech and religion.
This means everyone is free to express ideas that are different from others, and that indidivual rights should be respected.
Therefore people have a right based on their religious beliefs to defend certain behaviors and ideas that directly oppose the tenants they uphold. America affords everyone their right to vote, so we can’t exclude religious groups from the electorate because their doctrine teaches against the act of homosexuality, but not against the right to be one. Religious sects voting against prop 8 aren’t voting against the right of homosexuals not to express their lifestyles, but voting for their right not to agree it. And according to the constitution this right is protected and should be respected. So herein the problem lies, how does legislantion continue to protect the rights of everyone even when there are religious differences that also must be considered according to our constiution. I believe the fight should begin in the courts with both sides willing to talk instead of personally bashing each other and threatning the rights of one for all.

Furthermore this country was established by Christians along with the constitution, so when did America become homophobic all of a sudden when one can safely conclude that homosexuality was obviously taught as forbidden behavior by the founding fathers as well. Yet these same homophobic men are responsible for securing many of the rights and benefits that we all currently enjoy and love. Are you mad at the founding fathers too, because without their contributions you would not be free to express your homosexuality, or be given a chance to fight for the opportunity to now marry. Lets be real just within the last couple of years has same sex marriage even been an issue, so are we now witnessing a homophobic epidemic when it is convinent for your cause. Granted there are many who are hate monagers, but there are equally as many individuals who are just expressing their right not to agree with your actions, but agree to your right to express yourself as you please as long as it doesn’t violate the precepts of their religion. For most their religion celebrates and honor a marriage between a man and woman, and unfortunately no amount of justification, fear tactics, insults, or anger can stop people from obeying what their God or religion says is right for them.

I apprecate your comments….. All good thoughts… It’s so hard to have a robust dialog about this via text postings :) We should really meet at a Starbucks somewhere and discuss this over coffee…. :)

I’m in Kansas City…. Would be willing to meet you half way… :)

For those scratching their heads on the extension cord comment: I guess I was trying to point out that something as simple as a common extension cord employs the natural logic that nature appears to drive with the use of input and an output/male – female/ taker- giver etc….

I think I read once that scientists observed homosexual behavior between the common house fly…… So maybe it is more natural and part of nature than we may understand yet….

I hate the idea that someone would be considered less than because of their skin color or eye color etc………. or for that matter sexual preference….

Where the rubber meets the road for me is moments when one of my gay friends will decide he is comfortable enough to comment on how hot some guy was and talk about what he would like to do to him…

Too me that is in the same conflicting arena as if me and my brother were to sit around and talk about how hot our mom is and what we would like to do to her if we had the chance to get her alone….. yuck…….. That’s my Mother we are talking about….

Am I wrong……? I respect the fact that my gay friend likes guys but I can’t be a part of those kinds of conversations. At the same time I want him (my friend) to be who he is……….

I don’t know……..

I guess if I could leave some of you reading this post with one thing it woould be that for as many mean hateful homophobic people that are out there… There are also a lot of nice well meaning people that sincerely do care about there fellow man (no matter who they are) and want the best for eveyone…. Even if we don’t completely understand….

I just like the fact that have been able to put our ideas on the table and discuss them without attacking or defending a position.

Thank you guys for that.. This has been enlightening

Best wishes for now…

Jeff

Some have already brought this up in other posts, but looking purely at biology, you can see that homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom. Also looking purely from a science standpoint, gay unions help with the issue of overpopulation. Maybe that’s why God made some folks gay?

“Children and parents” isn’t really an accurate analogy for me because the “inequality” between a parent and child exists because a child relies on a parent to survive. Biologically, children are still developing, and it’s a parent’s job to help the child grow. Gay adults are not still developing, and they do not require a heterosexual person to survive. It is a common hurtful line of some folks to suggest that gay folks just haven’t grown out of that phase yet. These are the people who believe you can be cured of your “gayness”. Those places are the scariest. And at some point you all should look at the actual scientific studies linking homophobia to closeted homosexuality. It’s crazy.

Also, the fact that someone once named the ends of cords “male” and “female” does not have anything to do with what is natural and what should dictate natural law. It’s just a name someone gave to a cord at one point. They could just as easily have called them the giver and the taker (That’s a little crass sounding, I know).

I just think what is thought of as natural is still a little unknown to us. If homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom, doesn’t that make it natural? If it is not a choice doesn’t that make it natural? I cannot choose my eye color, skin color, or hair color either. And I certainly hope no one would take away my rights because of one of these things.

I guarantee your hetero relationships wont suffer a bit by laws making same sex relationships equal to yours. I have tons of gay friends in relationships, and so far I still feel pretty good about my own.

Maybe you can help me… I’m being sincere here… Not trying to be a smart ass.

I can’t get past the concept that biology sets the path for how much of our world is suposed to work. I’ve also respected the fact that many gay people I know didn’t choose to be gay, they just are…. I don’t think you “pick”gay…..

For example: Go to Home Depot and go to the electrical section and see if you can find any eletrical extension cords for sale that have either two male ends or two female ends that you can purchase….

Well natually…. they don’t make them or sell them because they don’t work….. (Not trying to say gays don’t work…)

So should anything be sacred? Should there be a natual order to anything? Thinking about a different topic rationalizing equality for a minute…

For example:

Would that mean that parents and their children should be equal….. There are lots of parents that are awful and should not be parents. But would that mean we change the rules and officially make parents and children equal? (Please understand I’m not in any way trying to draw a comparison of parents and child to straight and gay people) I’m trying to illustrate a concpet of natual order and logistics

I’m not trying to prove you’re wrong in your thinking…. I’m trying to share with you my thinking whether it be right or wrong…. Help me understand how you see it…. You might introduce something to me I’ve never thought of before… Just because we don’t see things the same dosen’t mean we have to rip each other a new one…. I know you agree with that because your response to me was very good…

I’m open to understnading another perspective……

Thanks…

marriage is a joke anyway. look at divorce rates. obviously, straight people aren’t that awesome at keeping it sacred.

I feel bad for your gay friends. It must be hard on them having a close friend who doesn’t think they should be equal in the eyes of America.

prop 1 super highway tax because there’s just so much traffic between santa barbara and oakland
prop 2 stop torturing animals
prop 3 childrens’ hospital tax
prop 4 molested girls have to tell their parents before they get an abortion – btw, why aren’t we talking about this one with as much outrage as 8????
prop 5 set the druggies free
prop 6 if 5 doesn’t pass, we’ll need this bill to help overhaul the prisons
prop 7 energy bill that everyone from the sierra club to so cal edison seems to hate
prop 8 still not quite sure why anyone wants to get married. but then i already am so the sheen has worn off for me.
prop 9 would give crime victims constitutional rights
prop 10 rebates for people to buy alternative fuel vehicles because apparently saving money on gas isn’t enough of an incentive
prop 11 redistricting reform
prop 12 buy that veteran a farm

in oc we also have J that would limit public officials ability to alter their compensation/ benefits without voter approval.

is it november 5th yet?

as an aside, my 6 year old daughter was watching t.v. with us today when an ad for 30 rock came on. when she saw tina fey she said “hey mommy, there’s that lady running for president.” i lmao ms. fey has totally stolen sarah palin’s identity..