Comments on: Michael Moore Goes Wonderfully Apeshit on CNN http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/ Celebrity gossip with an evil twist. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:22:00 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Laura http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-52083 Laura Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:03:56 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-52083 I think Michael Moore has done a wonderful job getting out important issues . Agree or not agree, he inspires discussion , dialog..even anger..... instead of confusion and hopelessness. The issue I have with Michael is that he manipulates situations when he does not have to...leaving him open for attack. Then many people believe nothing that he says! An example for instance is his assement about Cuba and their healthcare...He is totally incorrect .. I know this because I know someone who just came to the US from Cuba several years ago and has talked about the horrible situation there. I know of a physician who goes there to help occasionally who told me that the healthcare situation along with everything else, is pitiful. The truth is that Casto lets you see what he wants you to see...we were shown the healthcare and facilities of the elite. So why does he do this ? He either was trying to manipulate, or he allowed the Cuban government to manipulate him. His overall rage about healthcare in the US is valid....why mess up his argument with manipulation. Frustrates me. I think Michael Moore has done a wonderful job getting out important issues . Agree or not agree, he inspires discussion , dialog..even anger….. instead of confusion and hopelessness. The issue I have with Michael is that he manipulates situations when he does not have to…leaving him open for attack. Then many people believe nothing that he says! An example for instance is his assement about Cuba and their healthcare…He is totally incorrect ..
I know this because I know someone who just came to the US from Cuba several years ago and has talked about the horrible situation there.
I know of a physician who goes there to help occasionally who told me that the healthcare situation along with everything else, is pitiful. The truth is that Casto lets you see what he wants you to see…we were shown the healthcare and facilities of the elite. So why does he do this ? He either was trying to manipulate, or he allowed the Cuban government to manipulate him.
His overall rage about healthcare in the US is valid….why mess up his argument with manipulation. Frustrates me.

]]> By: Streisand_Disciple http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24876 Streisand_Disciple Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:53:55 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24876 I know it's both beating a dead horse and woefully off-topic here, but here goes: while I think reasonable minds can easily disagree on the value of nationalizing healthcare in the U.S., I hope that most of us can agree that: (a) when utilizing OECD-approved models that include a variety of taxes (e.g. income taxes, V.A.T., etc.), the U.S. has substantially lower effective marginal individual income tax rates than most industrialized nations with socialized healthcare, and (b) higher taxes cause individual taxpayers to work less. I feel this article is informative: http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/QR/QR2811.pdf. I know it’s both beating a dead horse and woefully off-topic here, but here goes: while I think reasonable minds can easily disagree on the value of nationalizing healthcare in the U.S., I hope that most of us can agree that: (a) when utilizing OECD-approved models that include a variety of taxes (e.g. income taxes, V.A.T., etc.), the U.S. has substantially lower effective marginal individual income tax rates than most industrialized nations with socialized healthcare, and (b) higher taxes cause individual taxpayers to work less. I feel this article is informative: http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/QR/QR2811.pdf.

]]> By: Lippy http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24838 Lippy Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:07:06 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24838 I have had two miscarriages -- one in the States while I was on holiday, and one in the UK where I lived regularly. When I had a miscarriage in the States, they let me bleed in the waiting room and let me wait an hour to see a doctor, even though it was 5:00 AM and there was no one in the waiting rom but me and my fiance. After three agonising weeks, where I went to three separate hospitals because everyone's response to what was going on with me was "We don't know what is going on", I went to a decent doctor (for which I had to pay $500 to see me) for him to tell me I miscarried ages ago and I was just bleeding out. Thank God my fiance's Cigna kicked in halfway through the visit, because for each hospital dash we were to be charged $2000. My second miscarriage in the UK, I got seen by my GP, sent straight t hospital, had all the tests done, and was told then and there I was miscarrying and there was nothing they could do. They even referred me to an after care counsellor and offered to do further tests to find out what was wrong so that I don't have to go through the pain of a miscarriage again. And yes, this was all FREE. I am an American citizen, and I am not Anti-America in the slightest. But I can tell you now, judging from someone who has experienced BOTH systems, America has A LOT to learn from other countries when it comes to providing its citizens healthcare. I have had two miscarriages — one in the States while I was on holiday, and one in the UK where I lived regularly. When I had a miscarriage in the States, they let me bleed in the waiting room and let me wait an hour to see a doctor, even though it was 5:00 AM and there was no one in the waiting rom but me and my fiance. After three agonising weeks, where I went to three separate hospitals because everyone’s response to what was going on with me was “We don’t know what is going on”, I went to a decent doctor (for which I had to pay $500 to see me) for him to tell me I miscarried ages ago and I was just bleeding out. Thank God my fiance’s Cigna kicked in halfway through the visit, because for each hospital dash we were to be charged $2000.

My second miscarriage in the UK, I got seen by my GP, sent straight t hospital, had all the tests done, and was told then and there I was miscarrying and there was nothing they could do. They even referred me to an after care counsellor and offered to do further tests to find out what was wrong so that I don’t have to go through the pain of a miscarriage again. And yes, this was all FREE.

I am an American citizen, and I am not Anti-America in the slightest. But I can tell you now, judging from someone who has experienced BOTH systems, America has A LOT to learn from other countries when it comes to providing its citizens healthcare.

]]> By: Fee Bee http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24832 Fee Bee Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:59:41 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24832 It pisses me off when people repeat things they've been told without any understanding of what the hell they're talking about. Oh, America can't have nationalised health because taxes are so low and ALL the other western industrialised nations have high taxes. Low taxes in America is a myth. You might have lower personal income taxes but things like property taxes are way way higher - example.... Property tax in my US home $12,000. Property tax in my NZ home $3,000 for a similar sized home. Sure NZ's income tax is higher but is graduated. And I suspect that's the case mentioned above with 90% tax. No-one pays 90% of their salary in tax. It might be 10% of their salary that's taxed at 90%. Maybe America should look at all the tax loopholes businesses and in particular those poor Hedge Fund Managers (15% when every other smuck pays 25-30%) manage to get. Closing those would pay for thousands of emergency surgeries. And as an aside, free or not, nothing can buy you a heart transplant. You have to wait for a donor and a match like everyone else. It pisses me off when people repeat things they’ve been told without any understanding of what the hell they’re talking about. Oh, America can’t have nationalised health because taxes are so low and ALL the other western industrialised nations have high taxes. Low taxes in America is a myth. You might have lower personal income taxes but things like property taxes are way way higher – example…. Property tax in my US home $12,000. Property tax in my NZ home $3,000 for a similar sized home. Sure NZ’s income tax is higher but is graduated. And I suspect that’s the case mentioned above with 90% tax. No-one pays 90% of their salary in tax. It might be 10% of their salary that’s taxed at 90%. Maybe America should look at all the tax loopholes businesses and in particular those poor Hedge Fund Managers (15% when every other smuck pays 25-30%) manage to get. Closing those would pay for thousands of emergency surgeries. And as an aside, free or not, nothing can buy you a heart transplant. You have to wait for a donor and a match like everyone else.

]]> By: RODENT http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24824 RODENT Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:07:49 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24824 RESPONSE TO THE BELOW IS IN CAPS: darcy_lane Says: July 10th, 2007 at 11:10 am The problem is, you don’t just “get a heart transplant” for free. In fact, you probably die waiting for your turn. That’s the main problem with free healthcare and controlled salaries for doctors and hospitals. IDIOT, WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS WHEN YOU NEED A HEART NOW? Do you really want your health care brought to you by the same people who run Dept. of Motor Vehicles or the Postal Service? UH, YEAH, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GOVT BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE. YOU ARE A CHUMP IF YOU DON'T THINK YOUR GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO BE RESPONSIBLE TO YOU. NO WONDER WE CAN'T GET A GOOD GOVT SYSTEM, WITH DEFEATISTS LIKE YOU WHO DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPLES AMERICA IS BUILT ON. FOR SHAME!!! RESPONSE TO THE BELOW IS IN CAPS:

darcy_lane Says:

July 10th, 2007 at 11:10 am
The problem is, you don’t just “get a heart transplant” for free. In fact, you probably die waiting for your turn. That’s the main problem with free healthcare and controlled salaries for doctors and hospitals.

IDIOT, WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS WHEN YOU NEED A HEART NOW?

Do you really want your health care brought to you by the same people who run Dept. of Motor Vehicles or the Postal Service?

UH, YEAH, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GOVT BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE. YOU ARE A CHUMP IF YOU DON’T THINK YOUR GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO BE RESPONSIBLE TO YOU. NO WONDER WE CAN’T GET A GOOD GOVT SYSTEM, WITH DEFEATISTS LIKE YOU WHO DON’T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPLES AMERICA IS BUILT ON. FOR SHAME!!!

]]> By: Brian http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24812 Brian Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:12:06 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24812 To be clear Neil Q. Sweden, as you have mentioned, is one of the few countries not running defecits and positive trade exports (both indicators of advanced economies and prosperity), one of the (and perhaps THE) highest standards of living in the world with world leader in industry. You make it sound like there is no business there, and no one can prosper under a 90% tax bracket. The fact is that for the greatest percentage of a society, a public system of most things is beneficial. In Sweden most forms of transit (buses and trains) , Health Care, roads, schooling (including higher education), sports (including many elite levels) and others are free. The argument that Think purports is credible in theory, but rarely works. If that was the case credit wouldn't exist for the vast majority of people. To say that those without 6 figure income should save for an unknown is just not credible. There are to many accounts of those WITH high incomes that need Oprah to help them with their finances. Too many people are just not responsible with their money to say "hmm, you need Chemo, eh? Well sorry that you had to send your daughter to College, because you are screwed" Not to say that gov't is responsible with money, but a government has 2 key responsibilities (back to the tenets of the French and American revolutions) - To protect its citizens (military, police, fire protection) and to provide a skilled workforce and infrastructure for industry (roads, rails, airports, education) To me healthcare fits into both and not coincidentally all of those things are publically fnded projects! Another fact is that Japanese car manufacturers (which are taking over) are building new factories in Canada and existing American manufacturers are investing billions into their Canadian factories why? Because we the public pay for THEIR Health Insurance! Why would Toyota build in Scranton PA and pay for 300+ workers Health Insurance when they can build in Woodstock Ontario and have the Government do it for them... it makes sense for business to operate in this environment, not in the classic capitalism model!!! B To be clear Neil Q. Sweden, as you have mentioned, is one of the few countries not running defecits and positive trade exports (both indicators of advanced economies and prosperity), one of the (and perhaps THE) highest standards of living in the world with world leader in industry. You make it sound like there is no business there, and no one can prosper under a 90% tax bracket.

The fact is that for the greatest percentage of a society, a public system of most things is beneficial. In Sweden most forms of transit (buses and trains) , Health Care, roads, schooling (including higher education), sports (including many elite levels) and others are free.

The argument that Think purports is credible in theory, but rarely works. If that was the case credit wouldn’t exist for the vast majority of people. To say that those without 6 figure income should save for an unknown is just not credible. There are to many accounts of those WITH high incomes that need Oprah to help them with their finances. Too many people are just not responsible with their money to say “hmm, you need Chemo, eh? Well sorry that you had to send your daughter to College, because you are screwed” Not to say that gov’t is responsible with money, but a government has 2 key responsibilities (back to the tenets of the French and American revolutions) – To protect its citizens (military, police, fire protection) and to provide a skilled workforce and infrastructure for industry (roads, rails, airports, education) To me healthcare fits into both and not coincidentally all of those things are publically fnded projects!

Another fact is that Japanese car manufacturers (which are taking over) are building new factories in Canada and existing American manufacturers are investing billions into their Canadian factories why? Because we the public pay for THEIR Health Insurance! Why would Toyota build in Scranton PA and pay for 300+ workers Health Insurance when they can build in Woodstock Ontario and have the Government do it for them… it makes sense for business to operate in this environment, not in the classic capitalism model!!!

B

]]> By: Slevin http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24711 Slevin Wed, 11 Jul 2007 03:11:12 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24711 Thank you darcy_lane. Your comments were well stated, well informed and I agree with you 100 percent! Thank you darcy_lane. Your comments were well stated, well informed and I agree with you 100 percent!

]]> By: Neil Q. Miser http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24675 Neil Q. Miser Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:08:35 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24675 The reason countries in Europe can have standardized, government controlled health care is because most of those countries have 60% or more tax rates! In Sweden it's somewhere near 90% for the upper tax brackets. Do you think any buisness would stay in America if they had to pay 90% in taxes? And you want the same government who runs our failing, decrepit school systems to run our healthcare the same way they do in Canada and Europe, where people often die from waiting for their "turn" to get medical treatment? I won't claim to be an expert, but I do know one thing for 100% certain: using terms like "DUMBocrat" or "republiCON" makes your credibility plummet faster than a congressional approval rating. The reason countries in Europe can have standardized, government controlled health care is because most of those countries have 60% or more tax rates! In Sweden it’s somewhere near 90% for the upper tax brackets. Do you think any buisness would stay in America if they had to pay 90% in taxes? And you want the same government who runs our failing, decrepit school systems to run our healthcare the same way they do in Canada and Europe, where people often die from waiting for their “turn” to get medical treatment?

I won’t claim to be an expert, but I do know one thing for 100% certain: using terms like “DUMBocrat” or “republiCON” makes your credibility plummet faster than a congressional approval rating.

]]> By: Elspeth http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24661 Elspeth Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:54:31 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24661 Yes, in Canada we might face a waiting list for some procedures. But I'd rather deal with that than deal with the hospital calling my "insurer" to see if it's okay to treat me AT ALL. Yeesh. In an emergency, we in Canada will always receive care...no question. And Canadians who go to the U.S. for treatments and tests for which there are waiting lists here are the Canadians who can afford the expense. They aren't going there because they've been DENIED treatment here in Canada. Neither our system nor our government is perfect, but we still have an enviable national health care program. We pay for it...and I'd even pay more taxes to maintain it if need be. Don't believe the blather about your "right to NOT have private insurance". That is utterly ridiculous. In a rich country like America, it is a crime that you don't have national health care...care that can't be denied and won't bankrupt an individual. Yes, in Canada we might face a waiting list for some procedures. But I’d rather deal with that than deal with the hospital calling my “insurer” to see if it’s okay to treat me AT ALL. Yeesh. In an emergency, we in Canada will always receive care…no question. And Canadians who go to the U.S. for treatments and tests for which there are waiting lists here are the Canadians who can afford the expense. They aren’t going there because they’ve been DENIED treatment here in Canada. Neither our system nor our government is perfect, but we still have an enviable national health care program. We pay for it…and I’d even pay more taxes to maintain it if need be. Don’t believe the blather about your “right to NOT have private insurance”. That is utterly ridiculous. In a rich country like America, it is a crime that you don’t have national health care…care that can’t be denied and won’t bankrupt an individual.

]]> By: RubiCON http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24645 RubiCON Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:32:18 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24645 Jake Says: I doubt anyone wants to imagine what the education system would be like if it were run the way the health industry is today. Yikes! Yeah, but do you really want your healthcare run by the same people who run public schools in this country? Jake Says:

I doubt anyone wants to imagine what the education system would be like if it were run the way the health industry is today. Yikes!

Yeah, but do you really want your healthcare run by the same people who run public schools in this country?

]]> By: pink_orchid http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24642 pink_orchid Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:58:26 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24642 saw this and cried when the american hospitals dumped disoriented patients at a shelter because they didnt have medical insurance... was so thankful to be a canadian. saw this and cried when the american hospitals dumped disoriented patients at a shelter because they didnt have medical insurance… was so thankful to be a canadian.

]]> By: Margo http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/comment-page-1/#comment-24629 Margo Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:55:46 +0000 http://www.evilbeetgossip.com/2007/07/09/michael-moore-goes-wonderfully-apeshit-on-cnn/#comment-24629 Because "Life" happens. That's why universal healthcare would be a Godsend. If you want private healthcare, no problem. Go into your special savings account. But your butler and chef need coverage too. The rich just keep getting richer under Bush. Because “Life” happens. That’s why universal healthcare would be a Godsend. If you want private healthcare, no problem. Go into your special savings account. But your butler and chef need coverage too. The rich just keep getting richer under Bush.

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